Making the curriculum “permeable” has come up multiple times so far, of creating space for kids’ ideas and questions to become part of instruction. Related, on page 148, the authors advocate “that we approach topics by provoking and following children’s interests”. How do you foresee this potentially happening in your school this fall and beyond?
I really am shifting toward a curriculum that is less cluttered with more opportunities for student-led inquiries. Not that I didn't agree with this idea before, but now I am trying to "live" it. We are working with a curriculum planning tool, Chalk (www.chalk.com), to develop templates that will guide teachers to create this space as teams develop and manage curriculum together.
I think in order for student-led inquires to happen students need to feel they are able to ask questions. They need to be able to have time to wonder about ideas. I like how Laurie supports this by telling the children "All you have to do is be a noticer. We'll notice lots of things this year and help each other notice as well. You'll help me notice more too.
After the first year that Sarah worked with us I asked her what was the most important thing she taught her kindergartners. She said, " I taught them to be noticers. That made all of the difference!" When kids notice, they learn more.
Great point, Shelly. Kids have to feel comfortable asking questions and not worrying about being judged. Where does this start...meaning, how do we create a culture of noticing and wondering? Also, nice inclusion of the comment which supports this thinking.
There are a lot reasons why we need to make sure that children ask questions. Their questions are actually great windows into what they are thinking, their misconceptions, their approximations, how they are making sense of things, their insights, in other words, their questions should be part of our assessment system. What they are thinking doesn't necessarily go away because we don't allow for them. For example, their misconceptions just become more solidified if not addressed.
I completely agree, Shelly! With my kindergarten students, I always start the year explaining that we will read LOTS of books, both together and independently, and that there will be words or things in those books that are confusing. So I give them the freedom to interrupt me (without even raising their hands!) during read alouds to explain confusing parts or discuss a new word they don't know. Although I am the reader, the students are in control of monitoring their own understanding and asking for clarification is encouraged and positioned as a helpful learning opportunity for the whole class. We collect those new, exciting words they find on an anchor chart to track our vocabulary growth in an authentic way. When reading independently or with a partner, students write down new words they encounter on post it notes to bring to the share circle at the end of workshop. There they can ask the class to help them figure out the meaning or share how they figured it out themselves to teach their classmates and model strategic, problem-solving reading behaviors. Giving students the power and ability to NOTICE and SHARE really changes the entire dynamic and creates an authentic, dialogic classroom.
It's a marvelous thing to see what kindergarten students are really capable of when we take the ceiling off of their learning and allow them to learn more. The kinds of vocabulary (one small example) they are capable of using was unbelievable. You can see Sarah's results in the book if you look at the information that Sarah collected. What Sarah and I noticed was the exponential learning that was happening. Sarah had created an intellectual community among her kindergarten students. Young children are quite the intellectuals.
For those of you interested in reading about the capabilities of very young children, The Importance of Being Little by Erica Christakis is helpful.
Thank you so much for that important point Shelly! And to extend that gift we give kids to invite their noticings and ask questions we have to remember that the best questions are ponderings that leads us to new questions. It's not about answering them but using each question as a gentle nudge to new thinking. So happy that you posted this essential point!
Mary is definitely a kindred spirit! I concur with what she is saying. We wonder why by fourth grade so many students are disengaged. Children are naturally curious which means they have lots of questions and want to know more. But if we make no room for their curiosities to flourish they learn that their curiosity and their questions don't really matter at all, the game of school is quite evident to them. This leads to extrinsically trying to motivate them to do what we want them to do, which actually extinguishes the inner desires to learn. So if we want children to be life long learners, what do we seriously need to do?
Kindred spirit indeed and I'm SO grateful to have this thinking space among friends. Maybe the step in that question is to recognize that EVERY decision we make (or refuse to consider) can awaken their curious wonderings and let them know that we honor them or send them the message that learning is all about compliance. Sadly kids get pretty good at that and give us the false impression of engagement when they're anything BUT. So grateful for this book and everyone who made it happen for US. It truly is a gift and a reminder that there is ALWAYS more to learn. We love your gift ❤️
What we do is look at the state standards and we pay close attention to the overarching ideas first. What we are obligated to do is make sure that we are working toward the standards. Then we read the standards a few grade levels below to a number of grade levels above because learning doesn’t occur just because a child is in a particular grade. Learning is dynamic. We constrain what children learn when we are just concerned about what is stated for our grade level because that is an arbitrary expectation. And, standards should just be a starting point not an ending point because if all we taught was what was in the standards, we would be short-changing our students’ education. For example, where was poetry in our old Wisconsin Standards? (Standards have been rewritten recently.) But what is so exciting about a permeable curriculum is that many of our students accomplish what was set for grade levels far beyond their current grade level. We started to keep track in the course of a year all that children learned as a result of allowing for a permeable curriculum and we noticed that compared to the set curriculum the students learned far more.
Merry Komar and I were a part of the Wisconsin ELA standards revisions. It was a helpful process for understanding how we can make the standards more culturally and generally responsive to students' and teachers' needs, especially in fostering a more "permeable curriculum" (a term I have adopted for future conversations).
I couldn't love this more if I tried Matt. Without time and space, nothing in Engaging Literacy Minds will every become a living breathing force in any school. So grateful for the work you're doing!
Well, I am jumping out of my skin with enthusiasm for your highlighting the importance of a permeable curriculum. This is the key to this work which goes back to our beliefs. If we say we want life-long learners, and most educators and school districts have that as one of their overarching goals, then we have a responsibility to understand what that means and how we get there. Often we say the “correct” thing that sounds wonderful but our practices do the exact opposite. It’s the old say, “Are we walking our talk?” It’s letting go of our old ways of thinking and being researchers to understand why we need to let go of them. So let’s work backwards. If we look at each of our students and ask, “Are they learning and growing and becoming in powerful ways?”, that one question should set us off on a journey of learning. If we say we value our children’s thinking and then we have a rigid set of lessons that we have created despite what our students know and are able to do and what they need, then we simply don’t.
Here’s what to do on day one and for at least the first two weeks of school. What I am going to suggest is different from what typically happens as we jump into set units and lessons before even knowing what our students need. That model actually is saying that we believe all kids need the same thing at the same time and it really doesn't matter who is in front of us. That is typically driven from a coverage mindset. So, how to change that? Invite your students to make books and see what happens. You can have a discussion about what we know about books together. Kids know books. If they get stuck have them send them off as researchers to look at the books in the room. Then watch to see what they write, the genre, their process, the level of engagement. or not and equally important, their ideas. If you see a child just sitting and not engaging, those are the students to confer with first to see why. I once had a child say to me when I thought they were not engaging with writing, “Mrs. Champeau, I have to think first before I write.” That sobered me up from my presumptions about why I thought the child wasn’t writing. Create an assessment system of recording those observations. Many of the teachers have a class “window pane” which is in the book, and jot down the title and the genre that each kid gravitates toward. I guarantee you will see the kind of writing instruction they have had before. If the whole class is writing the same genre that tells you something. This is the start to a permeable curriculum. Here you are asking the children to be noticers, doing their own research and inquiry (looking at books individually or together) to figure things out. You are building writing and learning identities and creating a sense of agency. That helps children feel competent and as they go off they can help each other and that builds community.
We are starting with the Nurtured Heart Approach at our school and noticing is a BIG component of that. I also love that Merry has such "huge" words on her word wall. I think sometimes adults forget that even young children can learn "giant" words if we use them in context and teach it. For example, my 5 year old's are really working on being "innovative" they love that they know know what it means to be innovative and they have not even started kindergarten yet. Building vocabulary in students can be so empowering!!!!
Thanks for sharing that approach, Stacy. I have heard of it but not familiar with its components. Nice to know that existing resources can support some of this literacy work, that we are not teaching everything in isolation, just as you mentioned, re: context.
I am a behavior specialist (not even a classroom teacher) and I LOVE this book! My FAVORITE thing about this book is that it shows us as professionals how to build SEL into an academic areas... I hear that "it is just one more thing to teach" Social Emotional Learning should take place all day and be embedded into everything we teach. We don't need to have a separate time for it and this book does a beautiful job showing us how to have those conversations during "reading time".
Yes, Stacy, that is a critical takeaway and a mindset shift. We seem to silo and compartmentalize so many things in school. Peter says, and has said in both Choice Words and Opening Minds, it's what teachers think they are doing that matters. So if we think we are simply teaching reading strategies to children or how to write in a specific genre and students' social-emotional growth is up to someone else in the building, then we will make different decisions. We won't think of our language, we won't think of the moment-by-moment decisions that actually build children's sense of competence and sense of belonging, their ability to have productive peer relationships, which are all critical to their learning. If we think we are simply teaching a laundry list of strategies, then we are not helping children take strategic action. If we are just teaching genres, then at the end of the day, we are not really teaching them how to think like a writer and develop their own process; therefore, they have not really developed in all the dimensional ways that is needed to become a writer.
Parents always comment on the way that children in Merry's classroom talk and what they talk about. Those "wondrous words" became commonplace because they became part of the fabric of daily conversations. Vocabulary develops as children use it and are exposed to these words. They can use what we refer to as sophisticated words from little on as Sarah attests to. Children need the space to talk a lot as they are learning. A misconception is if children are talking they aren't learning. Quite the opposite.
In the Stenhouse meet the authors description of Engaging Literate Minds, it says "With Peter Johnston and his books, Opening Minds and Choice Words as their guide, they spent the last ten years challenging themselves and each other to hone their instruction and promote a school curriculum that is thoroughly permeable to children’s interests and proclivities." I think creating a curriculum in honor of 'the interests and proclivities" of children requires us to know them well from all perspectives and then to be willing to create a curriculum in their honor so that those interests and proclivities can come alive in practice (not just theory). I keep thinking about ten years of studying children and coming to understand how we can make this happen and I wonder if THAT is how we begin - by deeply studying children and using what we notice through teaching in action to understand not just our children and their interests but our responsibility to ensure that we are able to craft a curriculum that reflects that. The authors show us what that kind of deep study looks like and if we could begin there then the transformation they talk about can begin beyond the book in classrooms everywhere! It doesn't have to be ten years of action research but even making that the priority in schools next year can work wonders because once you know what to look for you being to change the way you look and what you see! I hope that makes sense but still thinking this through in my head.
Mary, it makes perfect sense. the first thing I learned to do when I was in college studying early childhood was kid watch. That is no longer the case. So many problems in the classroom could be avoided in the classroom if teachers weren't in a hurry and didn't always feel the pressure to get to the next activity to "cover" the curriculum. Imagine if teachers took time every day all year to kid watch.
You really speak to my heart here Hannah. More often than you would imagine when I share something that invites that slowing down and refutes the day full of everything BUT, the immediate response is, "there isn't time." How can we not FIND the time to do what really matters and be willing to step back and admire our children engaged in learning. As someone who spends a great deal of time in schools (or did pre pandemic) without question the biggest reason is that whole class teaching usurps these precious moments. Of course there isn't time when we position ourselves at the center and kids are the recipients of what we do TO them. Stepping back requires us to step back not only to observe but to put them in the learner seat for the bulk of the day (Allington suggested that 60-70% of the day is kids engaged in learning and only 30-40% in teacher supported and yet many teachers are appalled by that idea. That's what I love so much about this book. Kids are not all day recipients but engage participants in the learning process. That seems to me to be the heart and soul of what we do. We only do whole class modeling etc so kids CAN take over, not so they remain prisoners to our obsessive doing. Just some morning worries and visions of possible all rolled into one!
Hannah, this book is what happens when we take that time. My question to everyone is, how do we change what has become some very unproductive and accepted practices in our schools?
We read. We write We study. We speak up. We stand up. We discuss. We share. And we refuse to stop and of the above. I'm afraid there are no easy antidotes to habits and misconceptions. I think of the work of giant shoulders I have stood upon throughout my career and still we fight the same school-created demons in the form of practices. It takes a village right? Then we just need a REALLY strong village that continues to grow and supports those changes!
Enjoyed reading the back and forth between Matt and Stacy just now. Really great discussion! I'm interested to learn more about the Nurtured Heart Approach. It sounds like it may mesh nicely with the thinking from Engaging Minds.
I too was thinking about the value of having kids be "Noticers." Children are naturally curious and ask 1,000 questions, which I know sometimes drives their teachers crazy, yet...if we zeroed in on that curiosity and used it to drive the instruction, we'd certainly see more engagement from our students. Too often their curiosity gets batted aside in the hurry of "covering" curriculum. I love that the authors explicitly state that "Approaching learning through inquiry does not mean we avoid the curriculum required by the school district or state." (p.148) Teachers need to know that before they are able to move into inquiry based learning.
I really want to be more intentional about using students "Noticing" coupled with their natural curiosity about the world, when we resume school, regardless the venue.
Thank you Ryanne for commenting. I concur with your appreciation that the authors managed to meet district and state expectations while building in more opportunities for noticing and wondering.
I think it is important to revisit some key posts from other chapters. Just like with student conversations, it is important to revisit to connect and build knowledge. I would like to take us back to Heather's post in Chapter 7, "Collective understanding of how knowledge-building conversations unfold is an essential first step. Merry begins by posing a problem with intentional constraints, rather than a solution. Too often adults stop children from ‘doing the thinking’ by offering answers instead of questions. Merry invites her students to ‘do the thinking’, by asking them to puzzle how they could set up a conversation where they can see each other’s faces as they talk, fit 28 children in the space, and allow them time and comfort for the full depth of conversation with all voices heard. I wonder what solutions our students would generate if given the same challenge in an online environment?"
As we think about how to create a permeable curriculum this is a good example on many levels. Merry does want her student to engage in conversation and she is just as pressed for time as we all are. But instead of bulldozing through the kids to "settle them down" so the conversation can begin, she knows that helping the students to create a space for conversation is just as critical as the conversation itself. So all of the moves that Merry makes here creates that caring environment and Heather identified that. It would be easy to miss. The tone set here also allows for the kind of conversation that is respectful and children see, feel, and hear how the space is created along with how the thinking is allowed to unfold. This is a permeable curriculum. Think of the opposite effect if a static curriculum were the driver for Merry. What would have been lost? Heather mentioned in Chapter 7 that we do this to have children build knowledge together, just like this book club is doing. We are not having conversations for conversation's sake, but for a greater goal.
Kathy, Thank you for expanding on this and bringing back those examples from the chapters and key posts for deeper reflection. I may have gotten caught up in conversation for conversations sake without reflecting on the greater goal. I will be more cognizant of that moving forward.
I agree that the moves Merry made could easily be overlooked. Recognizing that the process Merry took of posing a problem with intentional constraints, rather than providing a solution is paramount to understanding how knowledge-building conversations lead to the creation of a caring classroom environment where children can build knowledge together.
Thinking back at a couple of my zooms where 1 or 2 children dominated the conversation, I'm reflecting that I should have started the zoom sessions by posing a problem for the children to work out in regards to zoom etiquette, inviting them to do the thinking, rather than just muting the chatty friends or "telling" them when and how to talk respectfully.
I shudder to think of the side effects of the static curriculum as the driver. I know what that can look and feel like for teachers, and I image it isn't so fun for students either.
Ryanne, I was happy to see your transparency about your practice. Everyone can relate because we've all been there, yet few have the courage. This is why I host discussions about practice here vs. Facebook or other forums: it has to be a safe space to share both our challenges and celebrations. Your honesty + Kathy's response tells me these conversations are helpful and productive.
Oh Ryanne, just to let you know that what I posted was not in response to anything you commented on. I happened to go back to some former posts remembering what others have said as I was reading this week's posts and I was reminded how comments and insights are connecting.
In addition, we are all on a learning journey together and there is not one of us who doesn't have some things we wished we would have done differently. Ha, ha, I do daily. We tried to put a few of those in the book. I have more than my fair share. The good thing is we are always setting new goals for ourselves. As I read everyone's thoughtful and honest reflections and responses I think of how valuable this learning journey is with an intellectual community where we can just say it like it is for ourselves. The brutal honesty is actually the key ingredient to our own learning because that is being reflective and helps us know what we would like to notice and try to do differently. My plate is full!
Thank you for your kind words Kathy. It's reassuring to know that this is a safe place to share, think, learn, and grow. You asked a couple of questions today that get to the heart of my frustration with school. What do we seriously need to do in order to ensure our students are life long learners?and what do we do to abandon the practices that have become accepted, but that we know are unproductive? It's frustrating to me because even though I see the value in every word of Engaging Minds, I find it challenging to get EVERYONE on board. Just a spattering of teachers in a school who understand the value and teach in this manner is not enough. We need the "Whole Village" as Mary alluded. I wholeheartedly believe that a permeable curriculum, dialogic talk, an inquiry approach, kid watching, etc...are the path to creating life long learners. I am just at such a loss for how to create a sense of urgency in others that if we don't use the above practices there are untold side effects for both teachers and students. And... now I'm asking myself if maybe that's a place to start? Exposing the side effects that come from NOT engaging in these practices.....
Ryanne, I think exposing the side effects like Dr. Yong Zhao recommends in his book is a start. We never do that in education. Perhaps coupled with that is to have a staff think through what it takes to realize their stated beliefs with research that supports those practices. For example, if creating life long learners is part of one's mission, a staff could list what that looks like. Then the next step would be to identify those practices that lead to those outcomes, with research of course. I could see two faculty meetings with some T charts doing just that. First meeting, identify the stated beliefs/mission. Every school and district has those. Then brainstorm a list of characteristics that exemplify those beliefs . The next meeting everyone needs to come back with practices that develop those characteristics and the body of research that supports it, not opinion pieces, blog posts ( :) ), not articles unless those articles have the research cited. That is what Peter helped us do. He knows research and could identify why the practices we were using were working. Of course, we were trying to implement Choice Words and Opening Minds. Both of these are dense with cited research which was a guide for us. Peter added a whole lot more. One thing I always do when reading professional books is look at citations.
I appreciate these ideas for generating faculty beliefs and specific practices supported by research. That is very helpful to think about encouraging thoughtful action and not just talk. I have felt discouraged by our current PLCs as they have become more about data reporting and less about the critical small steps (guided by belief/practices) necessary to achieve our shared goals.
I really am shifting toward a curriculum that is less cluttered with more opportunities for student-led inquiries. Not that I didn't agree with this idea before, but now I am trying to "live" it. We are working with a curriculum planning tool, Chalk (www.chalk.com), to develop templates that will guide teachers to create this space as teams develop and manage curriculum together.
I think in order for student-led inquires to happen students need to feel they are able to ask questions. They need to be able to have time to wonder about ideas. I like how Laurie supports this by telling the children "All you have to do is be a noticer. We'll notice lots of things this year and help each other notice as well. You'll help me notice more too.
After the first year that Sarah worked with us I asked her what was the most important thing she taught her kindergartners. She said, " I taught them to be noticers. That made all of the difference!" When kids notice, they learn more.
And so do we. What a beautiful merger of curiosity inspired learners - kids AND teachers~
Great point, Shelly. Kids have to feel comfortable asking questions and not worrying about being judged. Where does this start...meaning, how do we create a culture of noticing and wondering? Also, nice inclusion of the comment which supports this thinking.
There are a lot reasons why we need to make sure that children ask questions. Their questions are actually great windows into what they are thinking, their misconceptions, their approximations, how they are making sense of things, their insights, in other words, their questions should be part of our assessment system. What they are thinking doesn't necessarily go away because we don't allow for them. For example, their misconceptions just become more solidified if not addressed.
It starts with building a caring classroom community where students see this modeled and supported
I completely agree, Shelly! With my kindergarten students, I always start the year explaining that we will read LOTS of books, both together and independently, and that there will be words or things in those books that are confusing. So I give them the freedom to interrupt me (without even raising their hands!) during read alouds to explain confusing parts or discuss a new word they don't know. Although I am the reader, the students are in control of monitoring their own understanding and asking for clarification is encouraged and positioned as a helpful learning opportunity for the whole class. We collect those new, exciting words they find on an anchor chart to track our vocabulary growth in an authentic way. When reading independently or with a partner, students write down new words they encounter on post it notes to bring to the share circle at the end of workshop. There they can ask the class to help them figure out the meaning or share how they figured it out themselves to teach their classmates and model strategic, problem-solving reading behaviors. Giving students the power and ability to NOTICE and SHARE really changes the entire dynamic and creates an authentic, dialogic classroom.
Thank you Sarah, for helping us see how students' contributions can be treated as teaching/learning opportunities.
It's a marvelous thing to see what kindergarten students are really capable of when we take the ceiling off of their learning and allow them to learn more. The kinds of vocabulary (one small example) they are capable of using was unbelievable. You can see Sarah's results in the book if you look at the information that Sarah collected. What Sarah and I noticed was the exponential learning that was happening. Sarah had created an intellectual community among her kindergarten students. Young children are quite the intellectuals.
For those of you interested in reading about the capabilities of very young children, The Importance of Being Little by Erica Christakis is helpful.
Thank you so much for that important point Shelly! And to extend that gift we give kids to invite their noticings and ask questions we have to remember that the best questions are ponderings that leads us to new questions. It's not about answering them but using each question as a gentle nudge to new thinking. So happy that you posted this essential point!
Mary is definitely a kindred spirit! I concur with what she is saying. We wonder why by fourth grade so many students are disengaged. Children are naturally curious which means they have lots of questions and want to know more. But if we make no room for their curiosities to flourish they learn that their curiosity and their questions don't really matter at all, the game of school is quite evident to them. This leads to extrinsically trying to motivate them to do what we want them to do, which actually extinguishes the inner desires to learn. So if we want children to be life long learners, what do we seriously need to do?
Kindred spirit indeed and I'm SO grateful to have this thinking space among friends. Maybe the step in that question is to recognize that EVERY decision we make (or refuse to consider) can awaken their curious wonderings and let them know that we honor them or send them the message that learning is all about compliance. Sadly kids get pretty good at that and give us the false impression of engagement when they're anything BUT. So grateful for this book and everyone who made it happen for US. It truly is a gift and a reminder that there is ALWAYS more to learn. We love your gift ❤️
I am grateful you are a part of this space, Mary.
What we do is look at the state standards and we pay close attention to the overarching ideas first. What we are obligated to do is make sure that we are working toward the standards. Then we read the standards a few grade levels below to a number of grade levels above because learning doesn’t occur just because a child is in a particular grade. Learning is dynamic. We constrain what children learn when we are just concerned about what is stated for our grade level because that is an arbitrary expectation. And, standards should just be a starting point not an ending point because if all we taught was what was in the standards, we would be short-changing our students’ education. For example, where was poetry in our old Wisconsin Standards? (Standards have been rewritten recently.) But what is so exciting about a permeable curriculum is that many of our students accomplish what was set for grade levels far beyond their current grade level. We started to keep track in the course of a year all that children learned as a result of allowing for a permeable curriculum and we noticed that compared to the set curriculum the students learned far more.
Merry Komar and I were a part of the Wisconsin ELA standards revisions. It was a helpful process for understanding how we can make the standards more culturally and generally responsive to students' and teachers' needs, especially in fostering a more "permeable curriculum" (a term I have adopted for future conversations).
I couldn't love this more if I tried Matt. Without time and space, nothing in Engaging Literacy Minds will every become a living breathing force in any school. So grateful for the work you're doing!
Well, I am jumping out of my skin with enthusiasm for your highlighting the importance of a permeable curriculum. This is the key to this work which goes back to our beliefs. If we say we want life-long learners, and most educators and school districts have that as one of their overarching goals, then we have a responsibility to understand what that means and how we get there. Often we say the “correct” thing that sounds wonderful but our practices do the exact opposite. It’s the old say, “Are we walking our talk?” It’s letting go of our old ways of thinking and being researchers to understand why we need to let go of them. So let’s work backwards. If we look at each of our students and ask, “Are they learning and growing and becoming in powerful ways?”, that one question should set us off on a journey of learning. If we say we value our children’s thinking and then we have a rigid set of lessons that we have created despite what our students know and are able to do and what they need, then we simply don’t.
Here’s what to do on day one and for at least the first two weeks of school. What I am going to suggest is different from what typically happens as we jump into set units and lessons before even knowing what our students need. That model actually is saying that we believe all kids need the same thing at the same time and it really doesn't matter who is in front of us. That is typically driven from a coverage mindset. So, how to change that? Invite your students to make books and see what happens. You can have a discussion about what we know about books together. Kids know books. If they get stuck have them send them off as researchers to look at the books in the room. Then watch to see what they write, the genre, their process, the level of engagement. or not and equally important, their ideas. If you see a child just sitting and not engaging, those are the students to confer with first to see why. I once had a child say to me when I thought they were not engaging with writing, “Mrs. Champeau, I have to think first before I write.” That sobered me up from my presumptions about why I thought the child wasn’t writing. Create an assessment system of recording those observations. Many of the teachers have a class “window pane” which is in the book, and jot down the title and the genre that each kid gravitates toward. I guarantee you will see the kind of writing instruction they have had before. If the whole class is writing the same genre that tells you something. This is the start to a permeable curriculum. Here you are asking the children to be noticers, doing their own research and inquiry (looking at books individually or together) to figure things out. You are building writing and learning identities and creating a sense of agency. That helps children feel competent and as they go off they can help each other and that builds community.
Yes, THIS. ❤️
We are starting with the Nurtured Heart Approach at our school and noticing is a BIG component of that. I also love that Merry has such "huge" words on her word wall. I think sometimes adults forget that even young children can learn "giant" words if we use them in context and teach it. For example, my 5 year old's are really working on being "innovative" they love that they know know what it means to be innovative and they have not even started kindergarten yet. Building vocabulary in students can be so empowering!!!!
Thanks for sharing that approach, Stacy. I have heard of it but not familiar with its components. Nice to know that existing resources can support some of this literacy work, that we are not teaching everything in isolation, just as you mentioned, re: context.
I am a behavior specialist (not even a classroom teacher) and I LOVE this book! My FAVORITE thing about this book is that it shows us as professionals how to build SEL into an academic areas... I hear that "it is just one more thing to teach" Social Emotional Learning should take place all day and be embedded into everything we teach. We don't need to have a separate time for it and this book does a beautiful job showing us how to have those conversations during "reading time".
Great to hear that you find this book so applicable as a behavior specialist! Agree with all of your points here.
Yes, Stacy, that is a critical takeaway and a mindset shift. We seem to silo and compartmentalize so many things in school. Peter says, and has said in both Choice Words and Opening Minds, it's what teachers think they are doing that matters. So if we think we are simply teaching reading strategies to children or how to write in a specific genre and students' social-emotional growth is up to someone else in the building, then we will make different decisions. We won't think of our language, we won't think of the moment-by-moment decisions that actually build children's sense of competence and sense of belonging, their ability to have productive peer relationships, which are all critical to their learning. If we think we are simply teaching a laundry list of strategies, then we are not helping children take strategic action. If we are just teaching genres, then at the end of the day, we are not really teaching them how to think like a writer and develop their own process; therefore, they have not really developed in all the dimensional ways that is needed to become a writer.
Parents always comment on the way that children in Merry's classroom talk and what they talk about. Those "wondrous words" became commonplace because they became part of the fabric of daily conversations. Vocabulary develops as children use it and are exposed to these words. They can use what we refer to as sophisticated words from little on as Sarah attests to. Children need the space to talk a lot as they are learning. A misconception is if children are talking they aren't learning. Quite the opposite.
In the Stenhouse meet the authors description of Engaging Literate Minds, it says "With Peter Johnston and his books, Opening Minds and Choice Words as their guide, they spent the last ten years challenging themselves and each other to hone their instruction and promote a school curriculum that is thoroughly permeable to children’s interests and proclivities." I think creating a curriculum in honor of 'the interests and proclivities" of children requires us to know them well from all perspectives and then to be willing to create a curriculum in their honor so that those interests and proclivities can come alive in practice (not just theory). I keep thinking about ten years of studying children and coming to understand how we can make this happen and I wonder if THAT is how we begin - by deeply studying children and using what we notice through teaching in action to understand not just our children and their interests but our responsibility to ensure that we are able to craft a curriculum that reflects that. The authors show us what that kind of deep study looks like and if we could begin there then the transformation they talk about can begin beyond the book in classrooms everywhere! It doesn't have to be ten years of action research but even making that the priority in schools next year can work wonders because once you know what to look for you being to change the way you look and what you see! I hope that makes sense but still thinking this through in my head.
Mary, your thoughtful post reminds me of a quote from a fun YA series, Jackaby by William Ritter. Two private investigators discuss their process:
“Everything is a science. Science is just paying attention and sorting out the rules already in place.”
This approach might be applicable here too.
Yes definitely Matt! I love that quote!
Mary, it makes perfect sense. the first thing I learned to do when I was in college studying early childhood was kid watch. That is no longer the case. So many problems in the classroom could be avoided in the classroom if teachers weren't in a hurry and didn't always feel the pressure to get to the next activity to "cover" the curriculum. Imagine if teachers took time every day all year to kid watch.
You really speak to my heart here Hannah. More often than you would imagine when I share something that invites that slowing down and refutes the day full of everything BUT, the immediate response is, "there isn't time." How can we not FIND the time to do what really matters and be willing to step back and admire our children engaged in learning. As someone who spends a great deal of time in schools (or did pre pandemic) without question the biggest reason is that whole class teaching usurps these precious moments. Of course there isn't time when we position ourselves at the center and kids are the recipients of what we do TO them. Stepping back requires us to step back not only to observe but to put them in the learner seat for the bulk of the day (Allington suggested that 60-70% of the day is kids engaged in learning and only 30-40% in teacher supported and yet many teachers are appalled by that idea. That's what I love so much about this book. Kids are not all day recipients but engage participants in the learning process. That seems to me to be the heart and soul of what we do. We only do whole class modeling etc so kids CAN take over, not so they remain prisoners to our obsessive doing. Just some morning worries and visions of possible all rolled into one!
Hannah, this book is what happens when we take that time. My question to everyone is, how do we change what has become some very unproductive and accepted practices in our schools?
We read. We write We study. We speak up. We stand up. We discuss. We share. And we refuse to stop and of the above. I'm afraid there are no easy antidotes to habits and misconceptions. I think of the work of giant shoulders I have stood upon throughout my career and still we fight the same school-created demons in the form of practices. It takes a village right? Then we just need a REALLY strong village that continues to grow and supports those changes!
Enjoyed reading the back and forth between Matt and Stacy just now. Really great discussion! I'm interested to learn more about the Nurtured Heart Approach. It sounds like it may mesh nicely with the thinking from Engaging Minds.
I too was thinking about the value of having kids be "Noticers." Children are naturally curious and ask 1,000 questions, which I know sometimes drives their teachers crazy, yet...if we zeroed in on that curiosity and used it to drive the instruction, we'd certainly see more engagement from our students. Too often their curiosity gets batted aside in the hurry of "covering" curriculum. I love that the authors explicitly state that "Approaching learning through inquiry does not mean we avoid the curriculum required by the school district or state." (p.148) Teachers need to know that before they are able to move into inquiry based learning.
I really want to be more intentional about using students "Noticing" coupled with their natural curiosity about the world, when we resume school, regardless the venue.
Thank you Ryanne for commenting. I concur with your appreciation that the authors managed to meet district and state expectations while building in more opportunities for noticing and wondering.
I think it is important to revisit some key posts from other chapters. Just like with student conversations, it is important to revisit to connect and build knowledge. I would like to take us back to Heather's post in Chapter 7, "Collective understanding of how knowledge-building conversations unfold is an essential first step. Merry begins by posing a problem with intentional constraints, rather than a solution. Too often adults stop children from ‘doing the thinking’ by offering answers instead of questions. Merry invites her students to ‘do the thinking’, by asking them to puzzle how they could set up a conversation where they can see each other’s faces as they talk, fit 28 children in the space, and allow them time and comfort for the full depth of conversation with all voices heard. I wonder what solutions our students would generate if given the same challenge in an online environment?"
As we think about how to create a permeable curriculum this is a good example on many levels. Merry does want her student to engage in conversation and she is just as pressed for time as we all are. But instead of bulldozing through the kids to "settle them down" so the conversation can begin, she knows that helping the students to create a space for conversation is just as critical as the conversation itself. So all of the moves that Merry makes here creates that caring environment and Heather identified that. It would be easy to miss. The tone set here also allows for the kind of conversation that is respectful and children see, feel, and hear how the space is created along with how the thinking is allowed to unfold. This is a permeable curriculum. Think of the opposite effect if a static curriculum were the driver for Merry. What would have been lost? Heather mentioned in Chapter 7 that we do this to have children build knowledge together, just like this book club is doing. We are not having conversations for conversation's sake, but for a greater goal.
Kathy, Thank you for expanding on this and bringing back those examples from the chapters and key posts for deeper reflection. I may have gotten caught up in conversation for conversations sake without reflecting on the greater goal. I will be more cognizant of that moving forward.
I agree that the moves Merry made could easily be overlooked. Recognizing that the process Merry took of posing a problem with intentional constraints, rather than providing a solution is paramount to understanding how knowledge-building conversations lead to the creation of a caring classroom environment where children can build knowledge together.
Thinking back at a couple of my zooms where 1 or 2 children dominated the conversation, I'm reflecting that I should have started the zoom sessions by posing a problem for the children to work out in regards to zoom etiquette, inviting them to do the thinking, rather than just muting the chatty friends or "telling" them when and how to talk respectfully.
I shudder to think of the side effects of the static curriculum as the driver. I know what that can look and feel like for teachers, and I image it isn't so fun for students either.
Ryanne, I was happy to see your transparency about your practice. Everyone can relate because we've all been there, yet few have the courage. This is why I host discussions about practice here vs. Facebook or other forums: it has to be a safe space to share both our challenges and celebrations. Your honesty + Kathy's response tells me these conversations are helpful and productive.
Thank you for your comments as well as for providing the “Safe space.”
Oh Ryanne, just to let you know that what I posted was not in response to anything you commented on. I happened to go back to some former posts remembering what others have said as I was reading this week's posts and I was reminded how comments and insights are connecting.
In addition, we are all on a learning journey together and there is not one of us who doesn't have some things we wished we would have done differently. Ha, ha, I do daily. We tried to put a few of those in the book. I have more than my fair share. The good thing is we are always setting new goals for ourselves. As I read everyone's thoughtful and honest reflections and responses I think of how valuable this learning journey is with an intellectual community where we can just say it like it is for ourselves. The brutal honesty is actually the key ingredient to our own learning because that is being reflective and helps us know what we would like to notice and try to do differently. My plate is full!
Thank you for your kind words Kathy. It's reassuring to know that this is a safe place to share, think, learn, and grow. You asked a couple of questions today that get to the heart of my frustration with school. What do we seriously need to do in order to ensure our students are life long learners?and what do we do to abandon the practices that have become accepted, but that we know are unproductive? It's frustrating to me because even though I see the value in every word of Engaging Minds, I find it challenging to get EVERYONE on board. Just a spattering of teachers in a school who understand the value and teach in this manner is not enough. We need the "Whole Village" as Mary alluded. I wholeheartedly believe that a permeable curriculum, dialogic talk, an inquiry approach, kid watching, etc...are the path to creating life long learners. I am just at such a loss for how to create a sense of urgency in others that if we don't use the above practices there are untold side effects for both teachers and students. And... now I'm asking myself if maybe that's a place to start? Exposing the side effects that come from NOT engaging in these practices.....
Ryanne, I think exposing the side effects like Dr. Yong Zhao recommends in his book is a start. We never do that in education. Perhaps coupled with that is to have a staff think through what it takes to realize their stated beliefs with research that supports those practices. For example, if creating life long learners is part of one's mission, a staff could list what that looks like. Then the next step would be to identify those practices that lead to those outcomes, with research of course. I could see two faculty meetings with some T charts doing just that. First meeting, identify the stated beliefs/mission. Every school and district has those. Then brainstorm a list of characteristics that exemplify those beliefs . The next meeting everyone needs to come back with practices that develop those characteristics and the body of research that supports it, not opinion pieces, blog posts ( :) ), not articles unless those articles have the research cited. That is what Peter helped us do. He knows research and could identify why the practices we were using were working. Of course, we were trying to implement Choice Words and Opening Minds. Both of these are dense with cited research which was a guide for us. Peter added a whole lot more. One thing I always do when reading professional books is look at citations.
I appreciate these ideas for generating faculty beliefs and specific practices supported by research. That is very helpful to think about encouraging thoughtful action and not just talk. I have felt discouraged by our current PLCs as they have become more about data reporting and less about the critical small steps (guided by belief/practices) necessary to achieve our shared goals.